Tonight for your homework, you need to read the article "The Decline and Fall of Empires. Once you’ve finished reading the article, respond to the following discussion points:
140 Comments
Grace Babcock
1/23/2017 02:08:39 pm
The cause of imperial decline with the most gradual consequence was the decline of martial spirit (5). Most citizens in an empire had a great sense of pride, and mainly internal factors led to the decline of the empires. For people to fall out of spirit would take a long time, as there are always those who will remain prideful. The Han Dynasty had many citizens fighting for their land, and they worked together against invading outside forces. The cause of imperial decline with the most immediate consequence was the regional, racial, and ethnic tensions (4). If an empire competes with itself and competing cultures clash, then the empire will fall quickly from the inside. If an empire cannot live as one uniform state and agree with one another, there is no balance. The Roman Empire declined when Christianity was introduced. Many citizens didn't accept this new religion. I agree with the author's statement, because citizens have a hard time accepting new things that they don't understand. The different religious views they have will cause them to argue over which one is right.
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Blake Williams
1/23/2017 02:38:58 pm
I agree with you because people really do have a hard time accepting something that is New or foreign. People just decide to totally lose their minds when others introduce new better ways into the society Especailly the Roman Empire they totally freaked out when people abandoned the main religion and went to Christianity.
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Esteban Alarcon
1/23/2017 02:51:23 pm
Grace, though you have valid points considering which cause would result in immediate decline, I disagree with your thesis. Regional, racial and ethnic tension takes time to formulate, to boil and to surpass the breaking point of a society. taking the US as an example, racial tension formulated for over a century and eventually led to a major alteration in the racial and ethnic standpoint of the nation. A civilization does not collapse in a matter of years due to disagreement among the people.
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Rebecca Shaffer
1/23/2017 05:21:24 pm
I agree, the idea of empires constantly fighting and competing with itself is definitely going to make it easy for it to collapse. To make matters worse the people have done this to themselves because they can not accept a change in their way of life. There will never be harmony in such an empire.
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James Gerdes
1/23/2017 08:37:17 pm
Grace, while I do agree with many of your points, I don’t believe the regional, religious, and ethnic tensions are an immediate cause of a collapse. While it might seem immediate when the tensions are high, it takes time to get the tensions to that point. It is unlikely that an empire would fall just from small disputes and it takes time for a civil war to occur. Other than this, I agree with all the points you made.
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Chayce Walker
1/24/2017 07:37:14 am
I agree with you. When a country or state aren't unified, many problems arise. Though it is good for newer ideas and cultures to be introduced, if people don't gradually introduced to it there will be problems
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Cole W
1/24/2017 04:43:43 pm
I believe that the most degrading cause of the fall of empires was the degenerating military morale. In an era where you aren't going to stand a chance unless you have a sufficient AND intimidating military, it's no surprise that when your morale goes down along with troop numbers, guarding your borders and keeping order within society is difficult. Not to mention the countless other societies that would gladly take your land if you could not stop them.
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Blake Williams
1/23/2017 02:51:44 pm
A big part that is played in the down fall of an empire or dynasty is the costly technology(9). This is a more gradual affect a great example would be the Roman Empire. It had such a vast Empire that when the different kingdoms within the empire would try and keep up with the technology such as better tools and weapons this would piece by piece take away the empire treasury. An immediate source would be regional, racial, and ethnic tensions(4). Society tends to stay in the past whatever works then and now must stay is the mind set of the people that live in these civilizations. An example of this is how the Roman Empire had a straight downward spiral once Christianity made it to their civilization. The people of the Roman Enpire were just so afraid to change their lives for something new that other people loved and has spread all over the world. I do agreee with this assignment all of the things that the author of this article, every section that he listed had historical evidence of what empire or dynasty had fallen because of that fact.
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Grace Babcock
1/23/2017 03:16:49 pm
I like how you stated that all the empires had these 9 causes that contributed to their downfalls. I agree with your statements, and that racial and ethnic problems caused separation and tension between citizens. The downfall of the Roman Empire was not only contributed to the introduction of Christianity, but that was a main factor.
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Cole Wilson
1/24/2017 04:50:49 pm
I totally agree with you Blake, advancements like aqueducts and towering walls must've been hard on their economies to build and fund.
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esteban alarcon
1/23/2017 02:52:47 pm
Esteban Alarcon
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MC Toth
1/23/2017 05:28:41 pm
Esteban, I agree with you that external enemies lead to the most immediate consequences as it is difficult to protect all borders of a massive empie. I also agree with your opinion on "otherworldly or escapist religions", being that religion was so strongly tied to these empires. I thought your response was very well written and well estabished to describe your examples so thouroughly and include dates.
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Daniel Hart
1/23/2017 06:08:43 pm
I as well believe that external enemies was the most immediate cause of collapse. I believe this due to unexpected invasions where you are unprepared can quickly bring an end to your empire. I thought you gave great explanations backing up your beliefs.
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Cat Arnett
1/23/2017 03:14:43 pm
1) Number 8- External Enemies are the quickest way to crumble an empire. A great example is the Persians in the aftermath of the Greek-Persian War. While the Greeks sauntered away from the fighting stronger and more confident in themselves the Persians didn't fair so well and went very under the radar for pretty much until the empire finally officially collapsed. The slowest way for an empire to die is for it to rot from the inside, hence number 4- Regional, Racial and Ethnic tension. A structure without a strong base will eventually collapse in on itself. This is the fate that awaits empires which are split internally. Take the former country of Yugoslavia. It's now quite literally shattered into pieces because its people felt they were to different to be under one flag.
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Abir Ghallab
1/23/2017 03:46:34 pm
Cat, I completely agree with you that number 8 external enemies is the fastest way for an empire to collapse. Post invasion can be very hard to recover from, which is one of the reasons I agree with you! I also agree with your choice of the slowest way for an empire to collapse.
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Susana Negrete
1/23/2017 04:14:23 pm
I agree that external enemies can lead to a quick decline in an empire. With the help of internal struggles of an empire, outside forces add to the chaos which can eventually lead to the empire's collapse.
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Leanna McKenzie
1/23/2017 04:36:05 pm
I agree that divisions caused by religions is the fault of the people that chose to separate themselves from it. I also agree that the quickest way I end an empire would be by external enemies. The disagreement of ideas or philosophies can cause enemies along with lesser neighbours being envious of larger states. You make valid arguments for that point that I agree with and you provided solid examples of this rapid decline.
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Gillian Ashley
1/23/2017 05:21:18 pm
Cat, could you clarify what you mean on the religion section? I just feel like I'm not accurately obtaining the point you were trying to get across. Are you saying that you can't blame religion because religion is inanimate? That's what I'm getting but I also feel that that is the furthest thing from true. A religion changes with time and with the people following it, and as a result, most certainly can not be called inanimate in any sense of the word. Also, people, including myself, do not like reality, and I feel like you did not respond to the escapism aspect of the prompt.
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Andrew Riner
1/23/2017 05:22:33 pm
Cat, I do agree with your point. I can easily see why #8 was an appropriate choice. Even in todays events, an example would be the world trade centers, another OUTTER country sought fear and not only did they achieve what they wanted, they got the whole worlds attention by doing so. Coming in from the outside really does make a bigger impact.
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Jared Nolen
1/23/2017 05:24:05 pm
Kat, I completely agree with your statements. I believe that is extremely important to understand the fact that war is often devastating to an empire. Due to the large size of the territories it often was quite the challenge to keep the borders safe. Therefore, an external invasion to lead to a quick and swift fall of an empire.
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Karen Flores
1/23/2017 10:28:29 pm
Cat, although we differ on opinions towards whether or not “otherworldly or escapist religions” are a cause of imperial collapse I see where you are coming from. I agree with you when you stated that it's the fault of the people not the religion itself that puts harm towards others. I also think that people choose to separate themselves from something that isn't familiar or as comforting as what they already know.
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Madigan Hargrove
3/1/2017 05:48:31 pm
I agree that external conflict would quickly tear an empire apart. The aftermath of war is a social and economic burden, not to mention the physical obstacles the empire must overcome.
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Abir Ghallab
1/23/2017 03:43:24 pm
Of the nine suggested causes of imperial decline, I believe that external enemies would have the most immediate consequences. Dynastic succession would be my second choice. Empires have always been very large amounts of land that are always hard to protect from every angle. In the past many militaries have failed to protect borders of empires under an invasion as it is very complicated due to the size of an empire. For example, both Gupta India and Han China were invaded by external enemies. While Gupta India had two major invasions in 500 and 510 BCE by nomadic peoples, Han China was invaded by Barbarians and both eventually collapse. A lot can be lost during an invasion and it can be difficult to recover, which is why I think it has the most immediate consequences. Of the nine I think the ones that would cause the more gradual consequences include inequitable economic burdens, regional, racial, and ethnic tensions, and the decline of martial spirit. Over time as an empire expands, more and more different individuals become under the rule of one governing body and I think this would gradually build up more and more tension as differences separated people. Eventually these differences can lead to conflicts that can directly impact the empire itself. Financial aspects are always important because that's the only way citizens will be fed and protected. Also its a major way of advancing and without the needed revenues none of this is possible. Lastly, if you don't have passion or a reason to fight, then nothing will get a accomplished or protected. The willingness to protect your land is crucial for an empire's protection. The Maurya Empire falls after individual lose the will to maintain their land after their ruler, Ashoka, dies.
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Leda Catak
1/23/2017 04:54:37 pm
Abir, I really like the amount of details you used while writing in a both thorough and informative manner - it's often difficult to be both thorough and informative at the same time.
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Cindy Bishop
1/23/2017 05:10:20 pm
Abir, I agree with you that external enemies lead to the most immediate consequences as it is difficult to protect all borders as you said. But the only way an invasion could destroy a empire is if the empire had already been failing with in leaving it vulnerable for any attacks on the area.
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Anthony Rodriguez
1/23/2017 03:49:26 pm
I believe that dynastic succession had the most immediate consequences. Fallen heirs and short hereditary lines provide the instantaneous need for a leader. When a new heir rose up to the spot, it was because of a form of selection within the ruling family. If their was a weak heir that was incapable of governing, then revolts and civil wars occurred, which then lead to the fall of an empire. An example of this would be the Qin Dynasty, how this dynasty collapsed because of their successor, Hu Hai, who was weak, causing the Chinese to rebel against him.
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Rachel Kudina
1/23/2017 05:05:38 pm
I agree with you on your claim about dynastic succession. Most of the rulers were unfit to be leaders and their only qualification was because of a relative who had the throne before them, which is unfair. If the leaders were picked with more precise decision, or if someone would've at least looked outside the family line, then maybe who was ruling at the time would be a reason to cross off on why this dynasty collapsed
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Madeline Toombs
1/23/2017 05:40:05 pm
I agree that dynastic succession by hereditary means is one of the more pertinent causes of a falling empire. There is no way to predict how the next ruler will be, how qualified they are, or how efficient they will be. Giving the most important job to a family member with no qualifications could have adverse effects on the growth and stabilization of an empire. This is especially true if the new ruler is impulsive or non-benevolent.
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Madison Oligny
1/23/2017 06:00:33 pm
i agree with you, because the lack of a strong heir would provide us with the most immediate downfall of an empire, and the inequitable economic burden would be the most gradual because the tax strain would be too much pressure for that group of society. The ability to fight if needed would be very useful to the continuation of the empire, but the peaceful nature is also beneficial to the empire's society just not as important as the need to protect if needed.
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John Koroly
1/23/2017 06:44:27 pm
Even though i didn't say dynamic was the most immediate consequence i truly would have picked it as a second. You're claim about a weak heir being able to cause civil wars is absolutely true because without someone strong, who could control the government? Also backing up what the author said about otherworldly or escapists religions is very true because if a dynasty was lead by Jainism it would be a short lasting dynasty.
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Andrew Prather
1/23/2017 06:49:41 pm
I disagree with your claim of dynastic succession having the most immediate consequences, as I actually used that reason for the longest consequences. The reasoning i used to support my claim was the fact that dynasties are often long and drawn out. Technological and cultural advancements are gradual. The change from one dynasty to the next would most likely follow that common trend. There would not be immediate noticeable change the following year of a new emperor. I believe that external enemies would present more immediate consequences.
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Aubrey Stewart
1/23/2017 04:22:23 pm
Of the nine suggested causes of imperial decline, external enemies would have the most immediate consequences. Neighboring countries can can invade empires with out them knowing, and destroy what they have made. The impact of that can be very immediate, especially if the empire had no forewarning, or if the invaders military was well armed. For an unprepared empire, this will definitely bring make them crumble. An example of this would be the fall of the Roman Empire, the barbarian invasions made the empire cave in after a while. A gradual consequence would be regional, racial, and ethnic tensions. After a while one group might think they're better than the other, and the feud will just grow with time until the tension explodes and everyone is against each other . This tension won't bring the empire together as one so they can defend themselves against others. An example of this would be Alexander the Great unification of the Greeks, Persian, and Egyptians. The grouping of these different cultures didn't work out which eventually led to the fall of Alexander the Great's empire.
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Rachel Panettiere
1/23/2017 06:01:36 pm
I agree that the threat of external enemies increases when these enemies are neighboring countries. Attacks can become easier when the opposition knows exactly how and when to take control of the rising empire's weaknesses. Also, these sudden invasions are difficult to stop when they are immediate and close by.
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Lucas Magalhaes
1/23/2017 04:24:50 pm
Out of the 9 suggested causes, I believe that the clause with the most immediate consequences would be and inequitable economic burdens (3). I believe this because if the government of an empire isn't collecting the taxes from their people, then the government would not have the economic support that is needed to trade and pay for military supplies, thus causing the empire to collapse soon. Another clause that would have the most immediate consequence would be external enemies (8). I believe this because if an enemy decides to attack an empire who has a scarcity of weapons and soldiers, then that empire would colapse quickly because the enemy automatically has the higher advantage.
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Aubrey Stewart
1/23/2017 06:08:44 pm
I agree with the new added religions would cause disagreements among cultural groups , will lead to groups not listening to the government, eventually causing the empire to crash completely.
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Kes McGuire
1/23/2017 07:17:29 pm
I totally agree with your choice in number 4 being a gradual reason. While I put the dynastic succession as the most gradual, there is solid reasoning for your argument. Ethnic tenstions don't just appear and build up overnight, it takes generations upon generations to diversify a population to the point where they disagree so much it leads to the point of sudden arguments and even wars and these ethnic groups that are under one common land begin to break apart.
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Tessah McAllister
1/23/2017 07:38:16 pm
I disagree with the regional,racial, and ethnic tensions being the most gradual consequence. I think that would be a quicker way for an empire to collapse, because if an empire can't remain strong within itself, how can it stay strong as a whole. However I do agree with what you said about the otherworldly religions.
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Leanna McKenzie
1/23/2017 04:31:21 pm
After reading and considering the article, I believe the intrusion and attack of external enemies would lead to the most immediate consequences. This is so because this cause is built on envy, hatred and greed. When enemies attack there are only two possible outcomes; you win or you lose and this can cause political damage to the military and reflect the poor leadership of the government. An example, although not an empire, would be the English conquests of Jamaica and several other Caribbean countries from Spanish/French rule. The most gradual consequence would be caused by dynastic succession because it will take several generations to notice the decline of leadership skills in the family line or the inability to produce heirs may not present itself until later in the rise of the empire or until the empire has already created a strong government or military base. This is proven in the Chinese dynasties that lasted quite a number of centuries before total eradication of that government system. The author of the article made reference to "otherworldly or escapist religions" as a cause because he believes that the ideas of reaching a goal of spiritual enlightenment rather working for success on earth can lead to the division between state and religion and the weakening trust and harmony between religious groups and the secularists of that society. I don't have a strong agreement or disagreement with this because I believe it is only possible if there were either divisions of religions in the society or the government had initially decided to exclude themselves from such practices.
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Leda Catak
1/23/2017 04:47:59 pm
Of the nine suggested causes of imperial declines, I believe that Dynastic Succession is the one to have the myriad impact. The discussion is regarding the "Declination" of the empires, so any chosen topic must be tied with the true meaning of the article.
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Rachel Kudina
1/23/2017 04:53:30 pm
Out of the nine causes, I think the most immediate one is dynastic succession because how each government was ruled greatly impacted how each dynasty turned out/fell. Towards many of the downfalls, the people ruling at the time weren't great and they certainly weren't chosen by the people, they got to where they were because of their blood, and that wasn't exactly fair to the people being governed over. One of the more gradual causes is moral decline because how an individual feels about something doesn't really affect or contribute to the issues at hand. Many people probably had their own opinions about each of the causes listed, but that really doesn't have anything to do with how these civilizations turned out. Otherworldly or escapist religions is a cause of imperial collapse because the difference of opinions between certain groups of people caused uproars and war, eventually leading up to a major downfall.
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Of the nine suggested causes of imperial decline, I think that external enemies has the most immediate consequences. The Roman Empire, Gupta Empire, and Han China were all affected by attacks of nomadic groups, such as the Huns, which became one common reason of their decline. Rome also faced a series of attacks by Germanic groups, and it was finally sacked by the Visigoths in the 5th century. On the other hand, I think that dynastic succession had more gradual consequences. Having a string of weak rulers or leaders affected the empires throughout a slower process. The Roman suffered this consequence during the 3rd century C.E. The Gupta Empire’s later rulers were also weak which lead to its decline.
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Taylor Gerald
1/23/2017 05:14:22 pm
I completely agree with your article response. Religion is a very touchy subject. It can lead to many problems between individuals or groups. It can also aid in the decline of an empire.
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Adeline Harris
1/23/2017 05:44:12 pm
Ana, I agree with all of the points you made and I really like all of the examples you gave! I especially appreciated the argument you made by the fact that religion is controversial. Religion is a hard concept to understand because everyone's take on it is different, so in the mix there can be a cause of conflict or rebellion to new ideas!
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Abigail Spence
1/23/2017 06:12:51 pm
Your choice for the cause with the most gradual impact was different from mine, but I understand why you choose it. Dynasties can rule for centuries such as the Han Dynasty and among those years there have been both good and bad rulers. Most times dynasties don't even fall until the last ruler dies and a revolt happens restarting the rise and fall process of the civilizations. This allows the declining process to happen more gradually compared to some others.
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Chesley Lucas
1/23/2017 06:20:29 pm
I agree with you on the first half, but not as much on the second. I believe some religions can stabilize an empire, by promoting expansion of the religion. While others emphasize peace and harmony among all things, these ideas cannot successful support an empire. This is because it decreases martial spirit, while encouraging higher morals and harmony. This goes against the very fabric that the idea of a civilization is built upon.
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Dian Hassan
1/23/2017 07:00:29 pm
I agree with you that a change of religions and the emergence of new religions can cause conflict with one another. You can see religious conflict in more modern history with conflicts between muslims and hindus during the partition of india being very prevalent. Another example of religious conflict in modern times could be Israel and Palestine.
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Taylor Gerald
1/23/2017 05:09:03 pm
I think external enemies would create the most immediate consequences. If the invader is strong enough, the invasion would immediately have a detrimental effect on the empire, forcing them to use a lot warriors and resources. The article talks about the Han and Roman Empires, but the Gupta Empire was also attacked by the Huns form the north.
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Rebecca Shaffer
1/23/2017 05:13:17 pm
Of the nine causes thought to be the reason of imperial decline, I believe decrease of martial spirit had the most immediate consequence. Warriors have always had a sense of pride, for fighting for what they believe in, and fighting to protect those they care about. However, when martial spirit (interest and pride to fight these battles) declined, states no longer had anyone to protect their people and borders. Rome, for example, had extensive land with no one to defend it. This was all outside forces needed to invade and take over. Without an army the government couldn’t control their borders or their inner cities. If a fight were to break out within their walls there was no one to control the people. The governments had to pay to bring in special groups of men which rapidly depleted the treasury. Not only was the empire of out an army, they were also out of money. The regional, racial and ethnic tensions seem to have had gradual consequences in the fall of empires. These groups resented the idea of unification, of becoming equal with people who they saw as different. Large strains of political and cultural views among people developed. Alexander the Great is a perfect example of this. He tried to unify and bring together the Persians, Greeks and Egyptians; however, because of people viewing things differently and not wanting to accept change or even the thought of changing their ways, his expedition fell apart. People of these empires were not in the least bit interested in seeing how others viewed life. They just saw how they thought it should be and they believed it to be right and more important than the beliefs or thoughts of others. The author suggests, “the other worldly or escapists religions,” to have been the cause of imperial collapse. The unifying factors such as culture, more specifically the beliefs or philosophies of people, play a major role in any empire. Without these factors division is more than likely to occur. If people experience new ideas or new ways of life, then the way they look at things and interpret them will change. This can easily cause tension in a large of group of people, even if it is just one or two people disagreeing. People, no matter the subject, will always see things in a different light and will rarely see eye-to-eye.
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Hank Nolan
1/23/2017 08:35:36 pm
I completely agree with what you said about "the other worldly or escapists religions", every person has their own belief and opinion. People will forever be separated by religion because of the differences that come with each.
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Gillian Ashley
1/23/2017 05:14:35 pm
Most of these nine issues are very gradual, slowly building up until the straw that broke the camel's comes down with a bang, making it look far more sudden than it most likely really was, external enemies would make more of a sudden and startling impact. These invaders could attack whenever and wherever they wanted, and that meant they were - you guessed it - sudden! All of the other causes are pretty gradual, I mean, it's not like government officials wake up one day and suddenly they're corrupt, it doesn't really work like that.
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Jacob Tutterow
1/23/2017 08:04:27 pm
I disagree with your point on escapism becoming too rampant. Why should there be someone to run the 'outside world'? Why can't people just run themselves? If people are completely happy practicing their religion, and they are not hurting anyone else, why conscript them to do anything but what they choose? Some people honestly could spend their whole life doing what they love, and not worrying about the outside world can be a benefit. When you look at the society as a whole, the spiritual, escapist one would be very peaceful and calm. Plus, people who do that can make significant contributions to the people. Think of Gregor Mendel, he was a monk that dedicated his life to religion. Because of that, he wanted to know more about the world, and doing so discovered the missing link that scientists were looking for for years. It should not be your place to judge others on their lifestyle choices, unless they harm another.
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Susana Negrete
1/23/2017 05:15:15 pm
Of the nine reasons which may have led to the decline of an empire, I believe that external enemies lead to more immediate consequences. With any other pressure that an empire faces, external enemies can quickly drain resources. For example, the Gupta Empire collapsed shortly after being constantly attacked by nomadic groups. Dynastic succession, however, has gradual consequences because it takes multiple rulers and/or generations for an empire to become too weak and eventually collapse. Take the 3rd century crisis as an example. The Roman empire finally collapsed after a line of inadequate rulers.
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Jared Nolen
1/23/2017 05:18:07 pm
I believe that external enemies are the most instantaneous cause of an empire's failure or fall. Civilizations during this era in humanity are often pulled very thin. It can sometimes be a challenge just for an empire to stay internally stable. When outside enemies begin to invade an empire's border tensions are raised in all aspects. External enemies often leads to war which can result in a collapse of the empire very rapidly. I believe that moral decline would be the most gradual cause to the fall of an empire. People often change the way that they act socially but I personally believe that the effect on empires would not be substancial. I believe that otherworld religions could have an effect on empires. Empires are often held together based on a set of central values. Therefore, a change in religion for example could often lead one to question the intergrity and rights of the empire.
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Andrew Riner
1/23/2017 05:19:26 pm
Very similar to Esteban, I do believe that out of all 9 listed, Dynastic Succession would have had minor problems while our further extended enemies would hurt us the most. The Roman empire was not functioning any where near as long as the Han Dynasty and that very well might be because of the fact that it was attacked by enemies not within their borders.
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Cindy Bishop
1/23/2017 05:19:47 pm
Of the nine causes of imperial decline, I think the most immediate is external enemies as well as bureaucratic corruption. Over the course of history it is most often seen that when a country or an area becomes weak politically, culturally and religiously it leaves the area more vulnerable to an invasion. For people seeking more land or more resources it seems ideal to strike when an area is weak. I believe that although the empires had mostly already declined what topped it off is the external enemies. In imperial Rome and Han china they were invaded by nomadic groups with forced an almost immediate decline in both empires effecting the two regions very much. I think that the author believes that not everyone agrees on the same religion and sometimes people that are very devoted to there religion can take it out on others creating something meaning to be peaceful to something dangerously vicious.
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MC Toth
1/23/2017 05:23:37 pm
Of the nine suggested causes of imperial decline, I believe that external enemies would have the most immediate consequences, while dynastic succession would have more gradual consequences. External enemies invading empires and taking over the government, killing the people, taking resources and destroying their homes, in my opinion, would immediately impact an empire with negative consequences. For example , the Zhou Dynasty came to an end during the Warring States period in 256 BCE, when Qin overtook the city and killed their leader; the Qin then conquered the other states and unified China beginning the Qin Dynasty (221-206 BCE). Dynastic succession gradually impacts an empire because it is more likely to happen slowly, over generations. For example, the Han Dynasty gradually began to decline as warlords, different nobles and officials from the imperial court began fighting for the throne. I agree with the author's statement on how “otherworldly or escapist religions” can be a cause of an imperial collapse. Religion is very strongly associated with, sometimes even determines the government of an empire, therefore could easily be the cause of an imperial collapse if it led to conflict.
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Hope Kutsche
1/23/2017 06:04:19 pm
MC, I agree with you about external enemies having immediate consequences, and that dynastic succession is a more gradual downfall of empires. I liked the examples you gave and they added good information to your analyzation. I would like to know how you think that escapist religions are a cause of an imperial collapse. Maybe you could elaborate on how religion not only determines the government but also cause the imperial collapse. Overall, I agree with you and enjoyed reading your response.
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Madeline Toombs
1/23/2017 05:35:32 pm
Of the nine factors that contribute to the falls of empires, the unsuccessful hereditary dynastic successions would have the most immediate consequences. Because not everyone in the ruler's family is necessarily a good leader (too young, mentally ill, etc.) It was hard to predict the future of the dynasty or empire when an emperor died. However, the factor that would be a more gradual cause of a failing empire would have to be the decline of martial spirit. When the citizens lost the will to fight for their respective "nations" it was harder to gather an army without paying outsiders to join. Empires are constantly on the look out for any outside attacks so continuously paying people to join an army would eventually lead to the bankruptcy of the government. A good example that demonstrates both of these points is the Maurya Empire. Ashoka encouraged non-violence which may have backfired. The citizens would have started thinking that non-violence was more important than defending the empire. During Ashoka's reign military conquests were continuing which means that someone was being paid to join the military because of the lack of enthusiasm among the people.
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Chike Asuzu
1/23/2017 08:01:28 pm
I agree with your position with the otherworldly religion effects on basic civilizations. When religion is left to coexist thoughtlessly with government, a power vacuum from one higher up to another with always develop. This due to the fact that people will consistently want protection from the higher figure, in this case being a God of inconceivable power.
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Abigail Spence
1/23/2017 05:35:40 pm
The cause of imperial decline that has the most immediate consequence, in my opinion, would be number 8, external enemies. External enemies physically attack an empire causing death and conquest of land as they pass through. This causes the empire to be immediately impacted causing a faster decline of the empire. For example, The Hun's were a nomadic group that threatened the northern boarders of China and once they coveted the land they conquered the Gupta Empire moving west. Also, the Germanic tribes were another set of nomadic people on the exterior of the Roman Empire, that contributed to the decline of their empire. The cause with the the most gradual effect on the decline would be number 4, regional, racial, and ethnic tensions. Many of the ancient civilizations were fragmented due to language and cultural boundaries, but there were different methods that the civilizations had with dealing with these problems so they did not cause much disturbance. For example, during the Qin Dynasty, a form of writing was established to compensate for the inability for people to communicate and for trade. Also, the cultural and ethical differences between civilizations rarely came in contact with each other. China was located far East from the other civilizations while India was also far from the Roman Empire for the most part, but the Himalayas also provided some isolation as well. The most contact they had was through sea trade or the silk road.
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Joanna Shephard
1/23/2017 06:04:48 pm
I completely agree especially with your choice for immediate consequences. Military action indeed does seem like the quickest way to destroy an empire. the only reason I was hesitant to include this in my response was because it may be more gradual than it seems. the conquest of one major empire would be difficult due to the sheer size of some of them. It seems like it would take another large empire like in the case of Rome or many smaller units similar to the tribal units attacking China.
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Adeline Harris
1/23/2017 05:40:39 pm
From the nine suggested causes of the fall of empires, I would say the most immediate cause of an empire's decline would be the regional, racial and ethnic tensions. Due to the fact that there was separation already within the society, it was difficult for peoples to consider themselves as one. For example, the Persian empire, while they let their people continue their local cultural practices, took their land and installed a new, different way of life. It would be hard to imagine that one would adjust easily and happily to that. A more gradual cause to the declines of empire's would be inquitable economic burdens. Essentially the empire's were like dominoes, as one falls the others soon begin to fall. Trade was a very important source of income for the empire's and when half of that revenue goes away it is hard to bounce back. Another gradual decline would be escapist religions and by this I think the author means to say that Daoism and Buddhism tend to reject government in a sense that we must search for "the way" or find "nirvana". Religion is more individualized and tends to focus less on society as a whole and more on what your future can become. I agree with this statement becuase they would prefer to live in peace and harmony rather than deal with the struggles of a uniform government.
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Hope Kutsche
1/23/2017 05:51:53 pm
Of these nine causes of imperial decline, I think the one with the most immediate consequences was regional and ethnic tensions. There can be many things wrong with an empire, but once you have different regions within the empire fighting against each other for conflicting beliefs, that's when the empire falls apart immediately. A cause that would have a more gradual effect would be economic burdens. These economic issues aren't ones that become apparent right away. They're problems that slowly start out almost unnoticeable and spiral out of control until the government doesn't have enough funding to hold the empire together. An example of this was the Persian Empire. The Persian taxes increased, but the Persian kings and royalty did not pay them. This caused unrest among the people which led to revolts. I think that the argument of religions being a reason for imperial decline is true, but I think this merges with other arguments about decline of martial spirit and possibly moral decline. I think this may be blaming the religions (partially rightly so) for people not being prone to violence and not wanting to fight for their empire. This may be because people always look for someone (or thing) to blame for a problem. Religion was definitely a factor in pushing people to be less violent, but I think it was more of a good change than a bad one. I agree that these nine factors all contribute to the decline of empires.
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Rachel Panettiere
1/23/2017 05:54:43 pm
The cause of imperial decline with the most immediate consequences was external enemies. As rising empires grow geographically and by population, they become increasingly difficult to protect from outside enemies. These empires also gain hatred from the lands and people that they conquer. This ultimately led to invasions occurring when defenses were weak, causing the empires to weaken or fall. This type of collapse is shown by the Persian conquest of the Greek city-states in Ionia, where the Athens eventually frees Ionia from the Persians due to conflicts between the two empires. The cause of imperial decline with the most gradual consequences was regional, racial, and ethnic tensions. Although large empires with great diversity often displayed conflicts between separate groups, these conflicts did not often engender decline as quickly as the other causes. While empires may have struggled, they were not pushed to failing due to tensions among citizens.
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Reed Walker
1/23/2017 07:48:00 pm
I definitely agree with you position on Escapist or otherworldly religions Rachel! An additional supporting piece of evidence is that in the Zhou dynasty Confucianism and Buddhism coexisted in harmony
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Giancarlo Davila
1/23/2017 08:35:36 pm
Rachel, I totally agree with you. Who knew that foreign enemies could have the fastest and most immediate consequences. In fact, most people would think that it would be the slowest. While empires grow, they become bigger, more spread out, more diverse, and harder to govern. Then, the foreign army come in and takes it over in a matter of weeks or months.
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Jada D
1/23/2017 09:05:24 pm
I absolutely agree with the fact that religion itself was not the source of imperial decline because everyone is entitled to their own belief systems. The Roman Empire was strong and could withstand the religious turmoil. The more I thin about it, Christianity was not even the straw that broke the camels back. There were a myriad of factors that include economic, political, military, and demographic features. Religious factors were minimal compared the rest of the damage Rome and other civilization were under.
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Joanna Shephard
1/23/2017 05:57:59 pm
Of the nine causes of imperial decline that the author examines, the one with the most immediate results was inequitable economic burdens. This is a trend that is seen in many classical empires where certain groups gained wealth while with other remained poor or sometimes lost money. This unequal distribution of resources and wealth was responsible for the decline of some empires. For example, in China’s Han dynasty, as agriculture became more lucrative land prices soared. The lower class was no longer able to afford land because the only people who could afford it were the aristocrats. This shift made the rich richer and left the poor with less and less. The change ultimately led to the decline of the empire. This shift had more immediate consequences because changes in agricultural profitability corresponded with the size of the population. As population suddenly boomed in flourishing empires the demand for food increased. This resulted in an increased demand for agricultural workers and arable land. This increase consequently raised the price to do business in agriculture.
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Morgan Stafford
1/23/2017 07:26:58 pm
I disagree with inequitable economic burdens being the most immediate as it can be closely tied to bureaucratic corruption which takes a long time to develop. At times inequitable economic burdens can be a result of bureaucratic corruption as the corruption causes an increased wealth gap between classes. Also, external enemies can bring down an empire at a faster rate especially if the invaders have a strong military system.
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Daniel Hart
1/23/2017 06:04:27 pm
Out of the nine causes, I believe External Enemies (8) had the most immediate impact. As exemplified by Alexander the Great when conquering the Persian Empire. It took very little time for a good Persian Empire to collapse due to the takeover by Alexander the Great. O believe Escapist or otherworldly religions (7) had the most gradual impact. Though there is a theory that Christianity had something to do with the fall of the Roman Empire, it definitely took time for this empire to fall.
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Chesley Lucas
1/23/2017 06:14:17 pm
I believe that the effect with the most immediate consequence was the decline in martial spirit. This is because when you have your people unwilling to defend their country you are more at risk of invasion. If you aren’t already invaded, then you should start draining your treasury to support mercenaries. Which also puts you more at risk if you are to bankrupt to defend yourself. The effect with the most gradual consequences would be the moral decline. This, I believe, encompasses many of the other topics, such as dynastic succession and bureaucratic corruption. As a people, we aren’t born heathens, we are either taught to be by our parents or by examples/actions set by the government. An example would be the American Revolution. Once people got here they didn’t want to secede, we had to experience the tyranny placed upon us by the British generations later. This created the movement to secede. I think “otherworldly religions” played a part, but not as big as it was stated. I do agree with the statement made about Buddhism and Jainism, but for Christianity I don’t agree. Christianity emphasizes peace, but also being forceful if needed, however Buddhism and Jainism emphasize peace and harmony with nature and all living beings. I think this places Buddhists and Jains higher on a more harmonious level, but an empire can’t be centered around those beliefs. (I just want to say that this isn’t a question of if I think one of these religions is better than the others, but if I think a empire can successfully rule with them.)
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John Koroly
1/23/2017 06:33:49 pm
I believe that the fastest consequence of imperial decline would be decline of martial spirit (5). The reason that this decline would effect the fastest is because it normally does not take someone to lose interest in something. Since most people wouldn't want to part of a militia for so long they'd just get bored and practically give up making the empires chose untrustworthy soldiers. However out of the 9, the one with the most gradual decline would be costly technology (9). Truly this is the most time taking fall due to expenses of having many things built. Even though the Great Wall of China was a great idea to be made, it drained the money out of the Chinese government which would eventually lead to the decline of the Qin Dynasty.
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Kaniz Momin
1/23/2017 08:03:51 pm
Sorry John, but I have to disagree with you on your thoughts of the most immediate cause for the fall of empires. I think that martial spirits took the longest time to have an effect on empire as this spirit only tends to fall once everything else has. Empires are still proud of all their achievements even if they're having some cultural problems. But, once their empire as a whole has completely fallen it is only then, that they have lost all their martial spirit. I can agree with you on technology being one of the slowest, as it brings the empires great resources to advance in areas until it too eventually starts to become more and more valuable that it is no longer very affordable.
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Cedric Pfeiler
1/24/2017 04:54:29 am
John, while I do agree with you in some ways, I do not think that martial spirit causes the fastest decline. I think this because, even if there is a lack of martial spirit, most people still fight for their country, mostly because they fear their leaders. This means that even if there is an issue with marital spirit, there will be little change at first.
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Andrew Prather
1/23/2017 06:41:50 pm
I believe that the most immediate consequences would be present in the invasion of external forces. Generally speaking, an invasion of an empire or country lasts no more than two decades, with the majority in just a few years. If an invasion of an external enemy were to take place many changes would be immediately noticeable. One of these changes is the decline in trade, due to the blockage of trade routes, depleted supplies, and less labor. Another immediate effect that would be seen is territorial loss. If an enemy is successful in invading, it will result in large territory loss. Finally, government instability is an immediate consequence of an external enemy. This is because as a empire struggles to fight off external enemies time and time again, government structure will collapse. An example that illustrates this point is the conquest of Gaul, which contributed to the control of Rome falling into Caesar's hand. I also believe that dynastic succession would have the longest effects. This is due to the nature of dynasties. Many are long and drawn out by many generations, and due to lacking technology, the amount of immediate change a single emperor could accomplish is limited. This is shown in the developmental trends of ancient China. Many years and dynasties do not contribute to major advancements until the Han dynasty. I agree with the author's assumption of escapist or otherworldly religions being a source for imperial collapse. This is because of the sheer power of religion. Although most popular religion's hearths can be found in a similar area, it can be observes how they have diffused across the globe and the impact they have had on the world. Something as powerful as religion could easily contribute to the collapse of an empire, as seen as one of the causes for the fall of the Roman empire.
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Patrick Wright
1/23/2017 07:34:07 pm
I acknowledge your claim about otherworldly religions but disagree, These minorities of people like Jains were small and could not possibly have such a detrimental effect on an empire as something like foreign invaders did. The Roman empire fell primarily because of weak and corrupt leaders and invasion from barbarians, not from people practicing a religion.
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Dian Hassan
1/23/2017 06:49:47 pm
Although many other factors contribute into the decline of a empire, the most immediate results of imperial decline is dynastic succession, while the decline of martial spirit is the most gradual. This is because without a strong leader, history tells us it will lead to social unrest, economic issues, and internal conflict. This is what happened with Darius the First of the Achaemenid Empire when his weak control lead to the collapse of his empire. A decline in martial spirit because it will take a lot of negative situations for one to completely loose hope for ones nation or empire. Many people contain a strong sense of pride for their empires almost like nationalists in todays society, so the complete loss of this would be utterly difficult, and can not be the only variable to the decline of an empire. The author also implies that otherworldly- escapists religions also help facilitate the fall of an empire, and I agree with that statement. Governments and empires need to expand their power for resources and also control their people and, when the people and the government have the same agendas then it is easier to do that because ones individual dedication is the same as the governments' or empire, but when religions such as Christianity come and emphasize a heavenly reward instead of earthly ones dedication would turn to god opposed to their empire. The people will be less concerned with the expansion of power, but more concerned on their spirituality, which ultimately cause them to oppose violence as well. Religion would basically take the place of the empire on an ordinary citizens priorities.
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Kes McGuire
1/23/2017 07:08:17 pm
I would say the factor that is the most effective and leads to an immediate collapse is number 8, external enemies. You see this primarily in the Han Dynasty in China, Gupta, and Roman Empire, where nomadic groups would attack the borders of the empires where the land was too far from the central control. A particular example would be when the Huns invaded the northern borders and ultimately led to the downfall of Han China.
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Morgan Stafford
1/23/2017 07:18:23 pm
As the rise and fall of empires has occurred through society, external enemies can cause an empire to fall almost immediately. this is especially true for weak or already falling empires. Repetitive invasions by Germanic barbarians, Visigoths, and other groups caused the Roman empire to fall because there was no time to rebuild after an invasion before the next started leaving them defenseless.
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Maryury Deloya
1/23/2017 07:30:31 pm
I agree with your statement about the escapist religions. People were able to live in a somewhat peaceful way with religion being introduced. Like you said, the caste system was able to give the people stability. Collapsing empires would focus on the economic and political aspects of where they were failing as a whole.
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Courtney M
1/23/2017 07:21:26 pm
I think the most immediate consequence would be the external enemies. They could cause war any day they would want to and cause a whole mess of problems for the kingdom. The Song Dynasty was on the decline, but the Monguls came in and took over the Song dynasty despite any other reasons that might have happened. One of the more gradual consequences would be inequitable economic burdens coupled with costly technology. Your people would eventually run out of money which would take awhile due to the shift of the rich getting out of taxes. While that was happening people would try to advance your society, but wouldn't be able to due to the problems previously mentioned then you would have a lot of issues coming at you at once.
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Aaronweber Jodesty
1/23/2017 08:45:12 pm
I disagree with this because in an empire.It can with stand outside enemies. It really depends on how strong the empire is. But as for racial and ethnic religion basis. That alone can destroy an empire in itself. It can cause a civil war between its own people. But as for External enemies, that alone could bring a whole entire empire to fight back. But when a empire has a lot of multiple ethnicitys and religions and different standards in moral code. It can cause a huge effect on a mpire
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Maryury Deloya
1/23/2017 07:24:57 pm
I honesty believe the dynamic succession would have had immediate consequences to cause an empire to decline. For example, Cyrus the Great formed the Persian Empire. The Persian Empire was successful during his ruling. Then came Darius I, who began to appoint governors and start trade. The Persian Empire was doing fine until Xerxes came into power. He led the empire to be very unsuccessful, making them vulnerable for invasion from the Greeks. Costly Technology would have gradual consequences. The advances in technology benefited each empire in their own ways. In some empires, weapons and tools began to become advanced. This allowed them to equip their military and also benefit in their agriculture. After the empires began to decline, these advances in technology would no longer be useful for them. I do not necessarily think it was the spread of religions that would have caused the decline in empires. Religions were being spread and to make a change in beliefs. Sometimes change is good. When religions were being introduced, most people would reject it because it was not what they believed. Although some people rejected the new religions, others were able to accept it. This brought some areas together to share a common belief.
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Zayed Makboul
1/23/2017 07:45:46 pm
I agree with you about the escapist religions and how you said change was a good thing. Change in empires is what spurs on new and ideas and new ideas propel an empire forward to become more modern and accepting.
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1/23/2017 07:27:27 pm
I feel the most immediate cause of an empires downfall would be bureaucratic corruption, it provides people with a motive for rebellion and is always internal so there is no time for confederates to travel to overthrow the corrupt governing system. If a corrupt leader comes into power he or she has the potential to destroy or improve the empire in a matter of months or years, which is much more instantaneous than other factors that contribute to an empire's downfall. In the Gupta Empire a series of weak leaders helped to bring the golden age of India to an end. I feel the most gradual determent to an empire would be costly technology, it definitely can end an empire by crippling the economic system by draining tax dollars and bankrupting the government, yet it poses far less of a threat because these technologies are not imperative for survival, so the construction or progress could be stopped if it became too expensive. Elaborate Roman architecture and lavish decorum may have contributed to its downfall, but definitely was not the primary reason.
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Tessah McAllister
1/23/2017 07:32:59 pm
Of the nine causes of imperial decline, I believe the most immediate consequences are caused by regional, racial, and ethnic tensions. I think this because if an empire can not be strong within itself, how can it stay in tact. It would be like building a house with no foundation; it would just fall apart. It's like the American Civil War, people could not agree on certain things, and it led to the split of a country that had to be brought back together with war. I think a more gradual cause of the collapse of an empire would be technology. Technology can take many years before advancing. Typically there is a large gap between when a new, revolutionary technological advance is made. I would say most of the time only slight modifications are made to technology after it is first created, so overall it would just take more time.
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Adam Blair
1/23/2017 07:40:07 pm
From the nine causes of imperial decline, I believe that external enemies would be a immediate consequence, and dynastic succession would be a gradual consequence. When civilizations had a lot of land, they were under the possible threat of having external enemies trying to conquer the land for themselves, like in the collapse of the Gupta Empire with waves of Hunnic invasions and nomads. The land was too far away from the central government that the empires tended to have, so there was not a lot that could be done to stop them. As a gradual consequence dynastic succession happens because a dynasty wants to keep going so they give the throne to heirs, and these heirs can be weaker as the generations go due to wine, song, sexual excess, mental deficiency, or other causes, or they left minor heirs who were incapable of governing. Also like in the Gupta empire where there was a succession of weak rulers from 467- ca. 500 Ce. For Escapist or otherworldly religions, it can cause imperial decline because when people tend to develop a strong belief that their religion is correct and that all other religions are inferior it can cause a dispute between the religions.
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Reed Walker
1/23/2017 07:42:15 pm
1) I believe out of the nine distinct reasons empires fall ,external enemies will create the most immediate consequences. Most empires had been created from enemies usually externally that had invaded the previous empire. If the attempt was unsuccessful then there will be remembrance and the thirst for revenge of the battle to attack again. If successful, this is a very quick consequence because if a a large powerful army invades an empire it will be controlled fairly quickly. This was the case in the Roman Empire in the case of the invasion by the Huns. It was done swiftly and by more or less a surprise to many. An example not mentioned is the Aztecs in 1519 CE in which Hernan Cortez of Spain, an external enemy attacked the empire. This battle was won by Spain very swiftly. Of the nine causes, a gradual consequence would be regional,racial,and ethnic tensions. This is gradual because cultural conflicts, do not occur in one day,week, or month. They sometimes take years to develop.Ultimately this still divides empires as can be seen with the caste system in India, or Hellenistic culture in the Mediterranean. The author states, "In time the division solidified into two separate empires , each with its official language, traditions, and culture" (1). Though this is specifically talking about the Romans, it still solidifies my claim that this cause takes time, but still creates division. A historical example not listed is the fall of the British Empire, because the majority of its colonies had different cultures and ideologies.
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Zayed Makboul
1/23/2017 07:42:38 pm
I believe that external enemies would have the most immediate effect on an empire. The invading enemies could kill many of the inhabitants of the empire causing a serious decline in population. A large decline in population led to the decline of many great empires such as the Romans empire, One third of their population was killed by a plague and soon after the entire empire crumbled. You can't have an empire with no people it is impossible, who will run the govt ? Who will establish trade and come up with new ideas ? If the population decreases at a dramatic rate the answer to those questions is no one. The most gradual effect would be dynastic succession. People wouldn't revolt against a new ruler until they figured out that if that individual was doing good for the empire or running it into the ground and honestly if the successor was terrible they couldn't destroy the empire overnight it would take time for all the trading to decline and the economy diminish. I disagree with the fact that religion may have caused the downfall of empires. Religion was a way for people to have hope in a god or many of them but hope isn't what caused the downfall of empires if anything hope strengthens it.
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Kaniz Momin
1/23/2017 07:49:36 pm
Of the nine causes of imperial decline, I think the one resulting in the most immediate consequences would be the results of external enemies. The Xiongnu (Huns) would repeatedly invade the Han Dynasty which ultimately weakened the empire. The Huns would also attack Germanic homelands which forced them to seek refuge in the Roman Empire, eventually settling in permanently in Roman territories. I believe the most gradual cause of imperial decline would’ve been the decline of martial spirit. This is because, most obviously it is intangible, therefore it can’t be taken or stolen away from any empire. Pride is something that stands with you through long periods of time, it only tends to fall once everything else has fallen, and there’s nothing left to be proud about.
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Fatema Momin
1/23/2017 08:52:09 pm
I agree with you on external enemies being the most immediate consequence, because if you upset an empire or even a group of people, they will want to invade your land, like Sparta invading Athens.
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Steven Robinson
1/23/2017 07:52:55 pm
I believe racial, regional, and ethnic tensions would have the most immediate effect on imperial decline. Looking back at the dynasties beginning around 5th century BCE and after they all had some sort of Nomadic or ethnic group that would constantly stir up tension. I believe that bureaucratic corruption would have gradual consequences. This is because the people would not immediately know about the lies, but would have to figure them out eventually.
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Tara Anastasoff
1/23/2017 08:59:19 pm
Steven, I disagree that bureaucratic corruption would have gradual consequences. I feel like they would be more immediate because a system of checks and balances is set in place and people are often very aware of their rights. As evident in America when we wrote the Articles of Confederation, people quickly realized that they wanted to have individual powers instead of a much too powerful national government. While lies may be kept secret to protect the people, a very Legalist point of view, it is clear that sometimes the government does not have the people's best interest in mind. All too often, this makes many individuals upset, leading them to rebel and turn against the government. When people are unhappy, they are very quick to form alliances with each other and stray from an organized government.
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Jacob Tutterow
1/23/2017 09:45:27 pm
Something I would like to address, Tara, is that the Articles of Confederation were not removed because it gave too much power to the national government, it was in fact the opposite. The federal government did not have enough power, and could not sustain itself, so the Constitutional Convention was conceived to attempt to fix that problem. A better example would be like the Magna Carta. There, the government was becoming tyrannical and disregarding people's rights, so the people forced the king of England to sign it and give them insurance on their individual rights. Other than that minor discrepancy, I liked your response.
tucker k
1/23/2017 07:54:47 pm
I think Inequitable economic burdens showed how if they people in higher power did not pay taxes the tax would be very harsh on the lesser citizens and inevitably leading the fall of the empire. People in higher power should pay their taxes and not allow the lower class citizens have to pay higher taxes. I do not think otherworldly or escapist religions are a reason for imperial collapse because religion is not that much of a importance to the citizens as taxes because the government falls when they have no money in their treasury.
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Chike Asuzu
1/23/2017 07:56:35 pm
1) I believe that external enemies would have the most immediate consequence causing imperial decline. External enemies cause a continuous outside source of fear in the people's mind that is consciously out of their own society's control. As well as being able to permanently shake several people's lives at a moments notice with their attacks. An example of this is the Huns on Chinese Dynasties which always served as a massive source of fear, and threat to safety of the societies' people and way of order. Adversely, dynastic succession offers more gradual consequences to imperial decline. Dynastic successions can sometimes offer bad rulers for long spans of time with no way of getting around. While other officials in local areas will try to hold together the order to keep their small sense of authority together, the weak, counter productive ideals of the central figure will eventually bring down the society. This is shown often in The Gupta Empire, in which the hierarchy was often faulted with poorly chosen rulers due to lack of the skills to leading a civilization.
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Rola Goke-Pariola
1/24/2017 03:31:19 am
Chike, I completely agree with your assessment of how dynastic rule may lead to the decline of an empire. It is very gradual process because as much as the ruler would like to believe they are fully in control, they have other people below them making sure things still run smoothly. This of course can only hold a country for so long, and the decline of an empire with poor ruler after poor ruler is inevitable.
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Jacob Tutterow
1/23/2017 07:59:01 pm
The quickest way for things in an empire to go south, is the race/ethnic relations to go down. In an empire, there is constant expansion, which inevitably will mean that new ethnic groups will become part of the empire. This, if the two do not get along, will be a very easy catalyst for a civil war, or general infighting within the empire. It would cause the rulers to loose power, and people would split off. We saw this in a pretty recent example, Yugoslavia. While not an empire, it was created with several ethnic groups that did not like each other. This lead to infighting and eventual splitting of the country, thus destroying Yugoslavia.
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James Gerdes
1/23/2017 08:05:04 pm
Of the nine suggested causes of imperial decline, external enemies would have the most immediate consequences. Imagine it like this; there is a deer. This deer is dying since it is unable to find food, water, or shelter. One day, while the deer is out, looking for a source of water or some food, a hunter shoots the deer through the heart with an arrow. While the deer would have eventually died due to starvation, dehydration, or died in the elements, the arrow was a final, quick blow to the already dying, weak deer. While things such as bureaucratic corruption or inequitable economic burdens might weaken an empire and eventually lead to its collapse, external enemies could finish the empire off in a relatively short amount of time. External enemies could be a slow killer as well, but it has the greatest potential to kill an empire in the shortest amount of time. War can be extremely taxing and it ultimately led to the death of the Persian, Roman, and Han empires.
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1/23/2017 08:15:42 pm
1. I think that external enemies would be the most immediate downfall, take WW2 for example when Nazi controlled Germany was at its peak, and after America joined into the war and eventually beat out Germany Nazism went almost extinct with little to no people still practicing Nazism. And I believe that costly technologies would be the downfall that would take the longest, before the revolutionary war started England was forcing the colonized America to pay higher taxes as a result of England's wars and after years of diplomacy America revolted and in turn England is no longer the Empire that it once was.
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Giancarlo Davila
1/23/2017 08:19:17 pm
Out of the nine suggested cause of imperial decline, the one with the most immediate consequences is the external enemies. Even though war with other may seem like a long time, it really can happen in a matter of weeks. Take into consideration how in World War 1, Germany invaded and took over France, Belgium, Luxemborg, and the Netherlands in 6 weeks. While external enemies might be the one with the most immediate consequences, [regional, racial, and ethnic] may be the one with the most gradual consequences. Differences between people can cause severe problems that can grow and grow for years. The segregation can be a big exmaple. The people had many differences, and wanted chnage but sometimes violence broke off on both sides and it basically turned into a civial war of hate because of differences.
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Maggie Huff
1/23/2017 08:31:52 pm
Though I don't exactly agree with your argument, I do think that it is neat how you chose the same cause for both the most immediate and most gradual. Your perspective makes sense, and I like the point you made on how some wars last weeks while others last years. Another good example of a pretty short battle would be the 6 day war, which supports your first claim.
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Maggie Huff
1/23/2017 08:24:00 pm
Though all nine of these occurrences in history have led to the decline and fall of several empires and government systems, the cause with the most immediate consequences is the decline of martial spirit. I am aware that this is most likely not everyone's initial thought, but once it is taken into consideration I believe that this would lead to failure faster than external enemies. An enemy can be held back for at least a little bit by force and threats, and it is also good to reflect on if the barbaric peoples had adequate materials for battle compared to the empires. Eventually the empire might begin to collapse, but it is really the matter of if the military has motivation to fight in the first place. Once the empire loses the fire that pushes them to win, it is extremely easy for them to be overtaken. So it is not necessarily the external enemies, but the people of the empire who have lost their spirit. We see this in history with the Nez Perce indians of the Americas. In fact, the chief directly says "Hear me, my chiefs! I am tired. My heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever." In complete contrast to this point, the most gradual cause of imperial decline in my opinion is Dynastic Succession. Though ineffective leaders do majorly alter governments and empires because of their morals, or just down right stupidity, drastic change and failure does not occur in an instant. It would take several poor decisions and mistakes to create a completely inadequate government system. Also, even though a country or empire may have an awful leader, the next person in power may come and fix the mistakes. In other words, they could save the empire. this occurred somewhat during the times of the Russian Czars one could argue, but it is difficult to find specific examples. I agree with the idea that new religions could cause some failure in empires, especially with government systems which were based on specific religions. Invading beliefs could potentially undo unification within a population.
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Harrison Haley
1/23/2017 08:50:01 pm
Hey Maggie!
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Maggie Huff
1/23/2017 09:02:38 pm
Hey Harrison!
Aaronweber Jodesty
1/23/2017 08:26:57 pm
As for the nine common quality's why an empire falls. They all correlate with a rise and falling action in each particular category. As for the quality's of there fallen empire like moral decline and costly technology. I feel like those particular reasons are not necessarily controllable. If you can say that an all empire must fall. Nothing can last forever. These nine common ways an empire falls. All have to do with that there are uncontrollable.
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Harrison Haley
1/23/2017 08:38:56 pm
Of the nine suggested causes of imperial decline, I most strongly feel that regional, racial, and ethnic tensions had the most immediate effect. As history has shown, conflict between ethnic groups has been a prominent role in the decline of the integrity of regimes or empires. This can be seen in the fall of dynasties from rebellions that stirred up over time, as the socio-economic factors of civilian life were continuously degraded by the government. However, probably the cause that took the most gradual amount of time, in my opinion, is the inequitable economic burdens. These would be long-term factors that would eventually result to, as stated in the paragraph, malcontent among the people. This malcontent sparks uprisings and would lead to the eventual destruction of empires, among the other mentioned reasons.
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Aaronweber Jodesty
1/23/2017 08:39:33 pm
I feel like regional, racial and ethnic tension is one of the immediate ways an empire can fall so quickly. One in a regional perspective. To much land can be hard to rule. Especially without a string stern government system. Also a lot of conflict and war can be driven of regions in or land area. Which can bring a empire to fall rapidly due to the money that may be lost and also the allies that may not trade with a empire all because of a piece of land or region that they may want to use for there empire. Another reason for a fall in a empire is also due to the racial an ethnic tension within that empire. One empire may not want to integrate other religions in a empire. Or may not recognize a religion in ones empire,. Which causes conflict. Usually on a religion, morals can come into play and how rules and goes about his or her daily life. So if you shame or dishonor or take a religion away. Especially in a large empire. Conflict and war which leads to civil war in ones own empire. So i think regions and religion is one of the main reasons why an empire can have a immediate fall.
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Fatema Momin
1/23/2017 08:47:33 pm
Based on the nine causes of imperial decline, I think external enemies (8) would have the most immediate causes. By creating external enemies you are personally creating the decline of your empire. Like the Persian empire, they invaded the Greek city states in Ionia, but they revolted which led them to win the make the Persian empire fall. I think (3) Inequitable economic burdens would have more gradual consequence. I think this because if the the rich people are constantly getting out of paying the taxes, the lower class will be paying all the taxes. And I think over time the lower class would start to notice, causing revolts like Gupta India.
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Janiah D.
1/23/2017 08:47:46 pm
I feel that a decline of marital spirit would have immediate consequences. Men always had a bigger role than women, especially when it came to the military. They also had a lot of other duties to fulfill, which meant not all of them could be in the military. Without enough men in the military, protection for the nation would be invalid, and they could all have the potential to be killed or injured from invading forces in the blink of an eye. I believe that costly technology would have gradual consequences. Agriculture became a big part of the most of the world, and it was a good source for food. Unlike agriculture, new developing technology such as roads and waterways cost an extra amount of money. But what happens if they become damaged and no one wants to pay for it? Some people could have been very dependent on those things, so they won't know what to do with themselves. This results in a decline in the empire. I think the author meant that the development of so many different religions within regions was too much, especially considering the fact that each religion had so many beliefs. It can definitely cause a lot of conflict between believers because they don't believe in the same things and that would make them not want to be near each other. There's really no empire without peace between the people. I actually agree with him for this reason.
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Tara Anastasoff
1/23/2017 08:49:01 pm
Of the nine suggested causes of imperial decline, I believe that number 4, “regional, racial, and ethnic tensions” would have had the most immediate consequences on an area. As religion and a sense of self (defining language, ways of life, culture) within a group often binds people together, tension between two opposing groups could quickly lead to turmoil and conflict. The author states that, “Great empires were usually composites of numerous racial, ethnic, and religious groups who resisted full integration.” By resisting full integration, these bodies are not living peacefully or fully accepting of one another. When strong-willed people gather together, whether over a common belief, ethnicity, or race, this force greatly helps them to support and uplift each other. If tension occurs between two powerful groups, the outcome is sure to affect the lives of many. While some differentiating associations are able to live in harmony with one another, there are multiple that have proved to be less than peaceful. For example, in the Roman Empire, an attempt at creating four different administrations with their own capitals and leaders, “solidified into two separate empires, each with its official language, traditions, and culture” (4).
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Jade Gooden
1/23/2017 08:50:09 pm
Of the nine suggested causes of imperial decline, I believe external enemies has the most immediate consequences. I claim this side because being attacked has a more definite impact on an empire. With successful and virtuous empires comes rivalry. For example, like in a duel when you are fighting for a prized possession( in this case wealth, land, etc.). With direct attacks in a correct strategy from an opponent a territory could be torn down in an instant. As for gradual consequences I think regional, racial, and ethnic tensions would do. With this claim it would be a long span of time before it could completely wipe out an entire empire on its own. Even though having people be in compliance and agreement is what keeps a stabilized, and unity in society is neccessary for an empires structure . Differences can and do occur which is inevitable to surpass but it does takes time to stir into serious actions. For example, there has been tensions between different groups in many countries throughout the world in the pastcenturies which have resulted in rebellions, protests, strikes, etc.
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Jada Dixon
1/23/2017 08:51:15 pm
Of the nine suggested causes of imperial decline, I honestly think external enemies would have the most immediate consequences. Outside forces plotting an attack while their target is unprepared would instantly lead to downfall. One example of this are the Germanic tribes that resided within Northern plains of Europe, who eventually invaded the great Roman civilization. The Asiatic Huns pushed the Germanic tribes directly out of their own settlements, so Germanic tribes sought refuge in Rome. Once they infiltrated Roman soil, the Germanic tribes established permanent settlements. Since Rome was already experiencing internal problems, these external enemies and invasions sealed the deal on the Roman Imperial collapse. Anther example of external enemies are the Xiongnu invaded China during the Han Dynasty, however the Xiongnu did not just attack Han China but Roman and Germanic homelands as well. The internal conflicts gave way to external invasions, ultimately causing their downfall. I think the author suggested otherworldly or escapist religions" as an imperial downfall because the people couldn't handle their own views on each set on beliefs. It always caused an uproar somewhere. For example, when Gupta India was developing and evolving their Buddhist beliefs the Arabs in 600 CE fought under the banner of their god Allah. The religions simply caused conflict between the civilizations and other empires. It also created problems and division within the empire. The people in Rome focused on spiritual desires and the earthly advancement in society was hindered by the beliefs in Christianity.
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Lyle Singletary
1/23/2017 08:56:37 pm
The most immediate cause for the falling of an empire outlined in the article, is number 7 External Enemies. During a war, when one side defeats the other the land of the loser usually falls into the winners occupation. The newly conquered land is no longer ruled by the previous government, that government has fallen and no longer holds power. Therefore the kingdom falls the second the external force takes over. An example would be in Gupta India when the barbarians invaded. The more gradual force would be number 7 Escapist or otherworldly religions. This would take more time due to the amount of time needed to convert the population and start causing issues for the government. Part of the reason I chose my answer for the last question is because I don't believe that other religions coming into a empire can cause it to fall.
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Hank Nolan
1/23/2017 09:08:52 pm
1) I believe that Regional, racial, and ethnic tensions, were the most immediate ways of collapsing empires. Throughout all of history there have been racial tensions and they still exist today. Every empire has had a form of slavery or class system and it will immediately begin to trigger tensions that lead toward disaster. I also Believe that Dynastic succession is the fastest way to bring an empire down. If a dynasty begins with a great leader than through history it has shown that it takes several generations to finally make the mistakes that lead toward collapse. The egyption empire had a passing of leadership through their royal bloodline for centuries from Narmer to Cleopatra. The empire stayed strong for close to 400 years.
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Priyanka Patel
1/24/2017 02:14:13 pm
I agree with you about the dynastic succession being one of the most fastest ways to bring down an empire. If one good leader dies or is assassinated but there are no good leaders after them, an empire could collapse due to poor leadership. Also, if the empire uses the hereditary/blood line to pass down the title of 'emperor' but the next person is not very good at ruling or has no knowledge on how to rule, the empire could quickly collapse.
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Morgan Brown
1/24/2017 02:37:38 pm
I absolutely agree with the part that you talk about conflict and inequality, its what divides people and causes neighbors to turn on each other. People with set beliefs often don't want to change or listen especially not give up power they currently have. Opinions are often when not worded as opinions lead to hatred or hate speech. Rapidly we have watched the world change due to conflict or issues regarding inequality, racism, and sexism. I believe the case would still be the same going back in time.
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Larissa Gutierrez
1/23/2017 09:12:13 pm
External enemies would have the the most immediate consequence do the fast nature it can take. Unlike other causes this one can change an entire civilization over night and the shift of powers can be immediate. For example during Colonialism, civilization that once prospered were taken over by strong military forces in Europe. War and conquest often lead to the creation or the destruction of new civilizations and the split up of Europe after World War One clearly illustrated this.
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Karen Flores
1/23/2017 10:21:00 pm
1.Through all of the nine suggested causes of imperial decline the most immediate would be regional, racial, and ethnic tensions. The argument of who is right and who is wrong in different types of separated groups have always existed which is the reason for racial tensions. While being surrounded by those who agree with what you believe in brings people together those who oppose those ideas cause conflicts. If major ethnic groups had a difference in opinion it could possibly become a situation where real action is taken place where people can be harmed. Tracing back its hard to rule out the continuous factor of how every empires has had some sort of class system that depicts an image of who is better than another person. A gradual consequence that would lead to imperial decline is the decline of martial spirit. Over time when we give up towards putting effort in a goal in life it's never accomplished to its fullest potential. When people truly believe in what they are fighting for and have a motivation there is no doubt in my mind that whatever task is wanting to be acomplished can be. Slowly when citizens of an empire give up hope and pride they lean towards not wanting to fight for a cause they don't fully believe in. Like that of the Roman Empire where men had a strong pride In military forces the Han Dynasty had a sense of togetherness that helped keep forces from outside. The belief and pride of where you live if what helps towards great accomplishments.
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Rola Goke-Pariola
1/24/2017 03:27:16 am
Of the given reasons for the decline of imperialistic societies, I believe external enemies would have brought down a society like that the quickest. If a powerful enough enemy were to invade one of these societies, the takeover would be rather quick. Even before the fighting was over, the imperial society would begin to decline rapidly due to the fact that war uses up resources and kills men. Part of the reason the Gupta empire was weakened and then eventually broken up was because of nomadic invasions. This along with other contributing factors led to its collapse, however it was really the invasions that set the collapse into motion. On the other hand, the cause that would have the most gradual effect on the decline of an imperial society would be the dynastic succession. The whole point of dynasties is that they are individually long lasting because they are passed down through generations. Families may rule for a very long time before the transition of power happens. Once the bad ruler comes along, it will take a while for his ruling style to overshadow everything the previous dynastic rulers had done.This was part of the reason for the decline of the Han dynasty. It lasted for a while, but started declining after bad rulers kept of succeeding each other, and even then that took a while.
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Cedric Pfeiler
1/24/2017 04:40:44 am
I think that Dynastic succession would cause the most immediate fall of an empire as it would cause an issue, where a leader does not know what he is doing. An example in history is where Caesar was killed and there is no one strong to take power. Eventually, the second Ceasar takes power, but is no where as good as the first.
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Elizabeth M
3/27/2017 03:23:02 pm
I agree with your point that dynastic succession would have the most immediate consequence on an empire and Caesar is an excellent example of that since he had no direct heirs at the time and the people who replaced him were not able to rule as well as he did. I think it would and has most certainly made many instant issues for empires and can immediately begin the decline of an empire if there is not an effective ruler to take over. I disagree with your point that corruption is the most gradual cause of decline and fall because corruption can almost instantly cause a revolution depending on how unfair the government becomes. If corruption causes poor people to become even poorer and not be able to afford food, people will almost instantly revolt, especially if the rich have plenty of food and money. I agree with your point that religions can cause the collapse of an empire because differing beliefs can sometimes cause unrest in a society, but they can also coexist peacefully, or at least peacefully enough to not be a cause of the decline and fall of an empire, and they have in many cases.
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Chayce Walker
1/24/2017 08:01:33 am
I believe attacks from outside sources (barbarians, nomads, etc) is the greatest contributor to the decline then fall of a empire. Constant attacks from outside contributors takes resources and soldiers to defend, and brings death and disease into cities. If the invaders were also able to enter one of the cities, they could pillage crops and other valuable resources. Invasions of states could also contribute to the change of government, like in the Gupta empire where the constant invasion of Hunnic tribes and Nomads led to the collapse.
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Nathaniel kem
1/24/2017 05:31:07 pm
I agree with your first piont chayce, in that the colapre of many empires can be atributed to a quick end at the hands of babarians. Another thisng i would like to point out is to disagree on your veiwpont of excapist religions. Your point does not explain why worldy religions such as Geaco-Roman religions were better.
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Priyanka Patel
1/24/2017 02:08:30 pm
Out of the nine suggested causes of imperial decline, I believe that that the inequitable economic burdens had the most immediate consequence. I say this because many empires started to fall when the economy started to fail. For example, once the Han dynasty in China had fell the Gupta Empire started to fall after them. This was because the Gupta empire relied heavily on Han China for trade. Without trade, there is no money coming into the empire. When the economy starts to fall due to various reasons such as trade or agriculture, the empire will start to crumble internally fairly quickly resulting in the fall of an empire. The regional, racial, and ethnic tensions seemed to be more of a gradual consequence. These groups seek unification and many people that were apart of the various empires were from the same racial or ethnic background. However, there were people of different racial and ethnic backgrounds, but many people would try to be united and accept all kinds of people within different empires. The decline of an empire due to regional, racial, and ethnic tensions would occur when the people started to develop their own views on politics. Alexander the Great would be an example because he tried to unify many people in different regions such as Persians, Egyptians, and Greeks. Many of these people had formed their own views in their regions. There were too many people over an extensive about of land which made it harder for Alexander to unify all of them. This had eventually led to Alexander not being able to control all of them. The author suggests ,"otherworldly or escapist religions”, to have been one of the causes of imperial decline. This can be a cause of a collapse because if there are too many religions or beliefs being formed, their are too many opinions that could cause conflicts. If there is a new way of life being introduced and some people adopt it, there could be conflict among people. However, religion is a major unifying factor. Many people can be united through the same beliefs that they each possess. Without having a religion or culture that is widely accepted through an empire, it can fall due to no unification among the people. Culture and religion has a large amount of power that can help a nation or destroy one.
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Morgan Brown
1/24/2017 02:32:18 pm
Inadequate leaders are the most dramatic and fast ways to cause a empire to fall. Without strong leadership a empire is bound to fail. A strong example is Alexander the great. People within the empire if they already had good leadership will refuse leadership from a poor leader. If there is a bad leader to start out with the worse the leader is the sooner it will fall. Unhappiness always leads to conflict.
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Zion Fitch
1/24/2017 04:57:09 pm
In my opinion, dynastic succession had the most immediate consequences. Fallen heirs and short hereditary lines provide the instantaneous need for a leader. In many cases like in Gupta India, a weak line of heirs and emperors would rule, ultimately causing civil wars’ which then lead to the fall of an empire. An example of this would be the Qin Dynasty, how this dynasty collapsed because of their successor, Hu Hai, who was weak, causing the Chinese to rebel against him. Another example would be the Gupta India dynasty as I stated earlier. They had a series of bad heirs and bad trades which lead to their collapse.I believe unequal and unfair economic burdens would have a much longer lasting or gradual consequence.Governments extremely rely on the financial success of their society and their production. Aristocrates avoided their taxes much like today, causing the poor to face even heavier taxes, and in most cases they were not able to supply the income to their government. Also, there was always a big gap in between the rich and the poor. There wasn’t a real middle class. The upper class would buy out the peasant's land, such as the Han Dynasty, but this would not happen just overnight. This would happen over a long period of time. It takes time for an economy and its government to face a depression. Think about the length of the great depression. I will agree with the author's statement on how otherworldly or escapist religions can be a cause of an imperial collapse. Religion has a strong connection with the government of an empire.
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Nathaniel Kem
1/24/2017 05:25:40 pm
Of the nine presented causes of imperial decline, I find that external enemies is the most immediate, similar to the Hun invasion of China, taking less than a decade to end the legacy of a empire. The most gradual one in my opinion is regional ethnic, and racial tension that happens with the conquers of lands. A good example of this would be in the Roman empire where the diversity weakened centripetal force, with the adoption of Christianity being used as a delay factor to the eventual collapse of the Roman empire. I think he suggests that the thought of another world keeps the believers of the religion to focus on attaining their religion's desire rather than on benefiting their empire, and some cases such as Gupta India, weakening the military might. I do agree with this staement, although it does not hold a stronger effect as other listed causes.
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dora vang
1/25/2017 12:03:38 am
Your interpretation on what the author is suggesting when it comes to "otherworldly or escapist religions" is very similar to mine. I agree that it keeps the believers of a religion focused on attaining their religion's desire rather than their empire's goal. Religious elements began to be associated with the governing powers, so this truly limited military, economic and administrative progression.
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Bahaar Esfahani
1/25/2017 08:50:49 pm
I completely agree with your opinion on "otherworldly or escapist religions". While it definitely is logical that it created a decline in this world's motivation, other effects seem to hold higher standing in the decline of empires.
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dora vang
1/24/2017 11:51:54 pm
Given the nine suggested causes of imperial collapse, it is clear to say that moral decline has immediate consequences because morals are the base to a stable, functioning society, and without morals, calamity is bound to happen. This is can be traced back to Ancient Rome, where morals such as values, ethics, and basic judgments were completely disregarded. Money inflation and slavery were two of the many catalysts that caused moral decline in the Roman empire. Living under the rule of the Roman Empire was basically impossible due to the cost of living. The frustration and hopelessness generated from the people led them to be reckless and careless. Massive amounts of blood-shed began to erupt like fuel being thrown into flames; eventually, this escalated to higher levels of savagery and barbarity. The harsh, unethical conditions that the slaves lived under brought even more civil unrest resulting in the revolt of Spartacus. When a community cannot work together as a whole, zero progression can be made. Instead, the people begin to divide, and they fall behind in terms of advancement. This shows that moral decline leads to the immediate imperial collapse.
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Bahaar Esfahani
1/25/2017 08:48:06 pm
The gradual fall of empires often resulted from, in my opinion, the decline of martial spirit (5). It takes a lot for a person, nevertheless a whole empire, to decide that their friends, family, and life are not important enough to protect against enemies. On the other hand, I believe that the presence of external enemies (8) has a more immediate impact, as making a enemy of an empire is easy and their ability to attack at any given moment never ceases.
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Chance McGarey
1/26/2017 08:55:17 pm
I believe that regional, racial, and ethnic tensions (4) would provide the quickest collapse, because when you have internal conflict in a state, you can't build walls to keep it out. Civil wars between groups could occur, and not only damage the groups, but the state as well. The most gradual cause of the destruction of an empire, however, would be dynastic succession (1), because it generally takes a while for families and governance structures to change, and civilizations such as China flourished under this system, for a good period of time.
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Andrerw Ivins
2/16/2017 06:07:18 am
Of the nine given causes of imperial decline, I believe that that regional, racial, and ethnic tensions (4) have the most immediate effect. This is because these are internal problems, leading to activities such as civil wars of nations withing themselves. If the nations with these problems did not fight against each other, they just split apart. This would have weekended the empire greatly. The political, economic, and cultural aspects would drastically be different. One example of this is the Christianity beliefs of the Byzantine Empire. As there was two forms, the nation had split into two, the first great schism. The cause of imperial collapse that has the most gradual effect would be external enemies (8). This is because all empires had a military meaning that they could at least slow down their decline and defeat to other empires. There was also time to partially rebuild their empire before being attacked again. Unless an empire was completely destroyed and conquered with the suffering of one defeat, this is a very slow process for decline of an empire. The author says otherworldly or escapist religions can be a cause of imperial decline because blame was put onto a certain group of people each time a bad event occurred. I do agree with the author here because the people that were blamed for these actions would have become angry and possible have started war or battle leading to the 8th cause of imperial decline, external enemies.
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Madigan Hargrove
3/1/2017 05:45:07 pm
The fastest way for an empire to fall would be if there was significant tension within the empire among its people. For example, the Mongolian Empire fragmented after the death of Genghis Khan. Within the Mongol Empire was the Yuan dynasty, which only allowed Mongols to govern. This didn't sit well with the Chinese majority and led to a revolt. A slow way to kill an empire is through dynastic succession. One bad ruler may not cause a revolt, but several in succession definitely will.
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Chloe Vernex-Loset
3/14/2017 08:41:06 pm
Imperial collapse had many factors. One if the most immediate ones external enemies. External enemies, like the Barbarians for any Chinese Dynasty- be it a nomadic group or the Mongols, cause an immediate threat because as soon as they hit, people die, food gets lower, taxes are raised, and there is typically civil unrest. The issues that great civilizations faced often had domino effects and would cause a million other issues to pop up. Such as a more gradual one, Moral decline. It is noticeable that in times of peace the number of petty crimes goes down, but when taxes are high and there is less to go around, people start taking risks to get what they need. With a lack of morality comes an expanse of thieves, rapists, and murderers. Unrest leads to revolt, which causes more taxes and more food shortages, so basically everything anyone does leads to the downfall of their great kingdom or empire.
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Elizabeth M.
3/27/2017 03:05:08 pm
I believe dynastic succession would have the most immediate consequences of the nine suggested causes of imperial decline because of many reasons. With a dynasty or any form of government that passes the power of ruling the land down genetically, there can be consequences. These can include anything from not having an heir, having a teen heir take the throne, having a poor ruling heir, and even having an ineffective heir due to incest. Not having an effective ruler for any reason instantly inhibits the nation of the ruled because the people don't have a leader or anyone to keep people in line and under control. This causes instant irruption between the classes of the society and makes the society weaker in general to everything, including outside forces and corruption. I believe Escapist or otherworldly religions would have the most gradual consequences of the nine causes because many societies can function well while believing in escapist or otherworldly religions for a long period of time. Religions can be a good thing for empires because they give belief and something beyond just us to believe in. Stressing heavenly rewards wouldn't have as negative of an effect as not having a ruler because while it might add to the decline of civic spirits, it makes people want to be good so they will get to heaven. Escapist and nonviolent religions could have a more negative effect on martial spirit though because they would make people less inclined to fight for their country due to lack of morale or the religious belief of being nonviolent. A historical example which illustrates external enemies as a reason for collapse of many empires is the Mongols. The Mongols succeeded greatly in conquering many different empires throughout Asia and they were the most successful nomadic empire in human history. The Mongols were external enemies to many different empires that they conquered. I think the author's suggestion that “otherworldly or escapist religions” can be a cause of imperial collapse is very unique because I haven't thought or heard of that before. I interpret that to mean religions that focus on getting to heaven or being peaceful can negatively impact the people on Earth due to Earth not being the focus. This may be because peaceful people wouldn't want to kill people for their country and while some people may be focused on being good people to get to heaven, their focus is still getting to heaven and not bettering their society. If people are focused on religion and not the world around them, they're less inclined to solve the problems right in front of them than their religion. I agree with this assessment because it does make sense to me. I can see how having the majority of the population believing Buddhism or Jainism can lead to the decline of an empire because they are both nonviolent religions. This would cause the majority of the people in the empire to be against fighting and war so the empire would be very weak military-wise. This could lead to decline because it makes way for external enemies, which is a common cause of fall.
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Angel Serrano
4/20/2017 05:11:46 pm
I believe that, of the nine causes, the most immediate cause for the decline and fall of an empire would be dynastic succession. All empires were governed by monarchies in which the power was passed down along family lines. This cause is interesting because it would possibly not cause downfall gradually or at all for many generations. It is possible that good leaders inherit power for a long time, but once a bad leader comes into power, that is when the downfall of the empire is most immediate. The decline occurs in the span of the leader’s rule, and is due to revolts, usurpations, and civil wars. It can occur in one generation, and really requires no cultural change, which means it can occur very quickly. Another way that dynastic succession can lead to the fall of an empire is the conflict that comes with not knowing for sure who the next leader will be. This can lead to internal division and civil war which will inevitably end an empire. For example, one reason for the collapse of the Zhou dynasty was internal division due to the succession of King You. External enemies would be another relatively immediate cause of decline, because it can happen within one generation and does not require cultural change. However, a successful empire should be able to defend itself against enemies, or else it would have fallen to other means before it fell to external enemies in one swoop.
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